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Wurttemberg standards 1809-14

Hi , I’m wondering how many standards the line infantry carried in the field from 1809-14 please. As my sources vary from 1 to 2 per battalion .

We’re the flagpoles painted ..one source states that the top half(?) of the pole was painted black and if so wouldn’t most of that have been covered by the Flag itself????

any Cords or cravats??

Thanks

Peter

9 answers1 reply

10 Comments

Stephen Prentice

Jan 02

This Christmas I was given a copy of Wurttemberg Infantry of the Napoleonic Wars by David Wright, published by Ken Trotman books. It is a very well laid out, nicely illustrated, softback book and in it the author gives details of the colours carried by each of the line and guard infantry regiments. A brief summation of the information Wright gives would be that colours were produced in 1798, 1803, 1807 and 1811 (but the latter were not issued until 1813). For most of the period each battalion of a regiment carried two identical standards. The exception was in 1813 when the 1811 colours were awarded. At this point each battalion carried one of the new colours. In 1814 there was a redistribution of colours at which point each battalion returned to carrying two colours. However, the colours carried by the first and second battalions of a regiment might now be different, with the first battalion carrying two of the 1811 colours and the second carrying two from an earlier award.

It is all a bit confusing but David Wright sets it out a lot more clearly than I have succeeded in doing and if you are interested in the subject I think it is well worth investing in his book.

https://kentrotman.co.uk/newbooks/wurttemberg-infantry-of-the-napoleonic-wars-military-colours-4/

Peter O'Brien

Jan 02

Replying to

Brilliant thanks Stephen

Stephen Prentice

Jan 02

Replying to

My pleasure Peter. However, I feel I should warn you that I've just taken another look at the descriptions of the flags in the book and some of the information given does appear to be contradictory. For example, on page 35, which deals with the colours carried by Infantry Regiment No. 7 (which confusingly became Infantry Regiment No. 8 in 1814), there are two paragraphs about the flags the regiment carried.

The first says:

"The 1811 colours were not awarded until 1813. Each battalion carried one of the same colour. On the distribution of colours in 1814, the first battalion carried two of these colours and the 2nd two of the 1798 ones."

The second says:

"On the distribution of colours in 1814, the 1st battalion carried two of the 1807 colours and the 2nd two of the 1798 ones formerly belonging to Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 2 Herzog Willhelm."

So I think it is fair to say that this book hasn't completely cleared up the confusion surrounding the standards carried by Wurttemberg battalions!

Markus Stein

Jul 09, 2022

According to Herbert Hahn's work "Feldzeichen des Königlich Württembergischen Heeres" the regiments mostly had 2 flags, only the 6th Regiment "Kronprinz" had 4 flags (according to a list of September 1811. After the 1812 campaign the Wurttemberg king ordered at the 11th February 1813 the delivery of 2 flags per battalion to these regiments, which had lost their flags.

Hahn cannot tell the exact color of the flagpoles pre-1812, as all originals are lost. But the 1811 and later models had dark brown and black poles.

Greetings from Germany

Markus Stein

P.S. as we prepare a larger book about the Wurttemberg army 1805-1815 much more details also about the flags and standards will be examined in this book (perhaps finished at the end of 2023)

Stephen Prentice

Jul 10, 2022

Replying to

Thanks Marcus,

I will look forward to your book. As far as I know, Wurttemberg was the only army of the period where two identical flags were issued to individual battalions. It would be interesting to know the thinking behind this? I can't believe they were given a spare in case they lost one - so is it possible that two flags were issued so that if the battalion was split into 'wings' in the field, each wing still had a standard? This is pure speculation on my part. I have no idea whether splitting a battalion into wings was even a practice in the Wurttemberg army of the time.

Best wishes

Stephen

Peter O'Brien

Jul 11, 2022

Replying to

Thanks so much Markus

Peter O'Brien

Jun 21, 2021

Having read Rawkins Wurttemberg booklet it seems that it was one flag per battalion , never appeared in the field until 1812 and the flag pole was dark polished mahogany with the upper half including the part under the flag was lacquered Black

Hans - Karl Weiß

Jun 21, 2021

Peter Bunde does some nice plates on uniforms and colours, this may solve your questions.

Peter O'Brien

Jun 21, 2021

Replying to

Thanks Hans-Karl , I’m still wondering if they actually carried 1 or 2 flags per battalion in the field

Stephen Prentice

Jul 05, 2022

Replying to

Hi Peter,

I have also been trying to work out how many standards the Wurttemberg infantry carried in the field in 1812 . According to Rawkins the 1807 pattern flags were issued in 1811 to the second battalions of all the infantry regiments except the 7th and 8th, which received flags for both battalions. He goes on to say that the 7th and 8th received two flags for each battalion "to be carried by the 1st Companies." This does suggest that each of these battalions did carry two standards in the field.

However, I think at this stage the first battalions of regiments 1-6 only had one flag apiece (regiments 1-5 carrying repainted 1798 pattern flags and regiment 6 carrying an 1806 pattern flag). So it could be that the first battalions carried one flag and the second battalions carried two. But this sounds a bit unlikely.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, I don't know the answer!