#WaterlooRemembered Day 6: Scratching the Surface - Waterloo Uncovered. In a poignant and humbling interview, I speak to archaeologist Dr Stuart Eve and UK armed forces veteran Ben Mead about the Waterloo Uncovered initiative. This brilliant charity aims to provide rehabilitation to veterans by involving them in archaeology digs on the battlefield. We talked about what had been discovered, the team morale on the dig, and how to support those struggling with their mental health. https://anchor.fm/the-napoleonicist/episodes/Waterloo-Remembered-Day-6-Scratching-the-Surface---Waterloo-Uncovered-ef7ml1
Strong stuff
It would be interesting to know what calibre those musket balls have found in the court yard, British, French, Nassau (I don't know what muskets they used could be still of French origin).
Battle field archeology could help a lot to see what happened in new context or just by finding items. It sparked me to research the wide held claim that the French Army wasn't issued with canteens for drinking, so they were found on a battle field, and that opened the eyes to find more than enough information in text and picture sources.
Of course a lot of battle field or lets say almost all would have been scavenged after the battle - and especially after a lapse of times by people with metal detectors. I see this with mixed feelings, those found privately are usually quite accessible for normal guys like me and a huge amount can be learned by that - whereas seemingly professional findings are hid behind steel walls.
I don't know why they should be put off to dig up mass graves. It would depend how you treat found bones, a huge amount can be learned, as for example digging them out at the battle field of Lützen (30YW) or medieval battle grounds which re shaped our perspective.
Still a lot dead soldiers are found from WW2 - they get then re buried in soldier cemeteries.
About PST - well that can be said about all mental (dis)affections - depression, phobias, still much stigmatized but so much in evidence and in case being not treated to catastrophic consequences to the individual and the social environment.
Hi Hans-Karl - we found a mixture of different musketballs (we can only really tell the difference between Allied and French balls). We have just published an article talking about the balls found in the Killing Ground (the little orchard on the south side of the garden wall at Hougoumont) - it can be found here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s42984-020-00013-y.
You can also check some of the results a waterloouncovered.com, including a couple of lectures on some of our findings: https://waterloouncovered.com/lectures/ - and loads of different videos from the project on the youTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/waterloouncovered
Glad you enjoyed the interview!
Hi Stuart
Thanks, very interesting, so after removing the top soil you then found quite a few musket balls.
Killing ground is a very unfortunate description, it was not a special ground prepared for killing but a contested spot on the defense, Hougoumont was not a fortress were killing grounds were created.
It would be interesting to see how far the musket balls of the defenders would go, generally usually they overshot. There is a report of a Prussian defense of a fortress where the units very close did not get killed while those 1200 paces back - in reserve suffered casualties.
The Nassau unit - could well be armed with a French fusil d'infanterie due to the case that they were former Confederation of the Rhine units fighting for Boney and being equipped with such muskets, making it maybe difficult to distinguish between a French or a Nassau ball.
Out of strong curiosity - what are the diameters of the French respectively the British balls - hopefully confirming or disagreeing with accepted wisdom, French supposedly 16 mm - but the British? Here there are conflicting sources and dimensions.
@Hans - Karl Weiß This article, co-authored by our member Arne Homann, may be of interest for you: https://www.academia.edu/3578255/Homann_Arne_Weise_Jochim_The_Archaeological_Investigation_of_Two_Battles_and_an_Engagement_in_North_Germany_from_the_19th_Century_A_Summary_of_Work_Carried_Out_at_Idstedt_Grossbeeren_and_Lauenburg
Very interesting - great work
I watched some of the videos with great interest, I would wish you would show from the historical aspect the same professionalism which you showed from the archaeological side.
Some of the modern illustrations used - are almost fantasy - which distracts from the very hard work and dedication which you are investing in doing all those excavations.
Alas the woods are gone, where a lot of fighting happened before the assault took place, so it will be very unlikely to detect a lot of lead musket balls, a lot would have been stuck in the tree trunks.
It would be very interesting to cut a trench through a part of the Lion's monument.
Hi Hans-Karl, we have done some detecting in the former woodland and have had really good results (which as you say is somewhat surprising given the impact of the trees) - we are hoping to go back and do the entirety of the area of the woods, but we are usually there at the wrong time of the year, when the farmer has his crops down. An off-season trip is clearly a necessity! Thanks for the feedback on the videos, which of the modern illustrations are you referring to?
Hi Stuart
I am referring to two colour drawings of seemingly a modern artist, one depicting French infantry with an eagle in a random formation, the eagle is carried by a grenadier, and he should be carried by a porte aigle or eagle carrier, in 1815, which was an officer, usually the eagle was accompanied by an eagle guard and not at random wandering around in a firing line (indeed an eye witness Larréguy de Civrieux, sergent - Major au 93e de Ligne, - Division Foy indicates that the eagles were sent to the rear, p. 56 in the Carnet Verts, for the Coldstream Guards shooting down behind the all, dimensions of equipment being off, as well as being quite exposed. This indeed would be very interesting to know how far they would be exposed over the wall, where the lower ground was however covered well by the shooting holes created by the sappeurs of the Königlich Deutsche Legion, so the attacker had no dead angle.
My firs to go source for Hougoumont is - Belgian authors
Coppens, Bernard & Courcelle; Patrice
Waterloo 1815 - Hougoumont - Les Carnets de la Campagne - No. 1, Bruxelles 1999
https://www.napoleon-series.org/reviews/military/c_hougoumont.html
Patrice Courcelle does also quite a lot of fairly well researched paintings
https://www.heritages.digital/waterloo-1815-en/1321/?lang=en
The PTSD that came to the fore in this episode almost certainly affected veterans of Waterloo as well: certainly I know of a few instances from the Peninsular War. However, we know almost nothing about this: it would be great if some bright young student was to adopt it as their dissertation topic.
Thanks Charles. The obvious issue is the question of effective diagnosis. It is quite clear from some of the trial records that some individuals were point on trial with symptoms that seem to suggest the accused had PTSD (having been found wondering aimlessly behind the lines after Waterloo). A deserter would more likely have had a sense of purpose, especially in terms of evading capture. Yet we cannot be sure. It's a topic that needs study, but the question is where to direct the efforts so that the diagnosis is effective.
Very difficult to asses, even considering in what frame of mind those people 200 years ago lived - death and injuries - also in daily civilian life quite common.
I read a case where a soldier broke down in battle, but nobody made a fuss about it, up to then he served well - they had the impression that the candle was burnt down, the amount of bravery each man was given individually - was spent - he had the right to leave in the middle of the battle. A very interesting and in my view impressive approach to the psyche.
Interesting. That clearly stands at odds with what Ed talks about in terms of primary group dynamics. I've not come across such a nuanced 'credit where credit is due' approach before. Do you happen to know the book?
I cannot remember the book - but I think it was about 1815, Pflugk - Harrtung - and it was a German unit - maybe it can be found in the Waterloo archives by Glover.
In my view Ed sees it too much with the view of the 21st century - early 19th century state of mind was different and it could differ between different nations as well as armies (conscript army versus professional army).
Also he sees it from the point of view of a tiny proportion of a soldiers of the Napoleonic time, a British professional regular soldier - the scope is again much greater and much more nuanced.
To asses PTSD - we would have to see how those soldiers did when leaving the army and see how they would cope in life.
Thanks Hans-Karl. It's interesting that Michael Hughes, John Lynn, and Ilya Berkovich all see the applicability of the primary group concept though - the first two in relation to the French army, and Ilya in Ancien Regime armies more broadly.
I did read only John Lynn - Bayonets of the Republic - from the above mentioned authors, though he stresses the importance of the ordinaire - he is not overdoing the primary group concept as much as Ed is doing, in my view.
(your ordinaire may consist of totally different people than you would fight in battle with, each day you would be aligned in one rank and then the sergent - major - would form three ranks according to height, and then again in battle sub units would be equalized to ensure and identical frontage to be able to manoeuvre, this at least for the French Army, so you might had different comrades at your side all the time)
I always feel we are on thin ground trying to understand how the mind frame then was and what motivated and did not motivate people or how they did cope or did not cope with the stress of battle.
We can describe it and sometimes soldiers or officers allow us to get glimpses into their frame of mind, an officers gets brain on his face from a man hit beside him and to distract himself a bit from that experience he picks up a musket and cartridge pouch to distract himself by shooting.
Primary group concept is very convenient to create an explanation we could identify with - but - in my view - there must be more and it was different to our days.