To see this working, head to your live site.

Numbers of British drummers

Hi everyone

I am a PhD student researching British drummers and bandsmen during the Napoleonic Wars.

I was wondering if anyone on this forum is aware of sources stating the numbers of drummers and trumpeters serving in the British regular army in wartime (ideally 1808). I have seen numbers for the total effective strength of the army and its rank and file strength (ie corporals and privates), but I need to know the number of drummers specifically to get a sense of the musical manpower required by the army. I have data on the Militia and the Volunteers from the Parliamentary Papers - there are several returns broken down by rank viz sergeants, drummers, R&F. The Parliamentary Papers also include post-war returns for the regular army's effective strength with drummers and trumpeters listed as a separate category, but the first such document available gives figures for 1817. Wartime tables don't break down the totals by rank.

I have spoken with Andrew Bamford about this and plan on consulting the WO17 manuscript strength returns at the UK National Archives when I next visit - probably not for a while, given the current pandemic-related restrictions.

But I've posted this enquiry here in case anyone is otherwise aware of well-sourced data that might help me - I find it odd that this fairly basic quantitative information is more readily available in print for the Militia and Volunteers than for the regulars.

Any leads would be appreciated. 😀

5 answers9 replies

14 Comments

Share Your ThoughtsSign up to leave a comment.

Rod MacArthur

Aug 11, 2020

Eamonn,

The figures above are entirely infantry. I will post cavalry figures separately.

Rod

Rod MacArthur

Aug 12, 2020

Replying to

Eamonn,

British infantry normally had 10 Companies per Battalion, with 2 drummers per Company, regardless of the size of that Company.

British Cavalry only had one trumpeter per troop, but the number of Troops per Regiment varied. Cavalry Troops were paired up to make Squadrons, so there were two trumpeters per Squadron.

From 1802 to 1815, there were always 31 British Cavalry Regiments. The number of Troops per Regiment was:

31 Dec 1802: 30 with 8 Tps, 1 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1803: 30 with 8 Tps, 1 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1804: 28 with 8 Tps, 3 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1805: 5 with 8 Tps, 25 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps. 31 Dec 1806: 5 with 8 Tps, 25 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1807: 3 with 8 Tps, 27 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1808: 3 with 8 Tps, 27 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1809: 3 with 8 Tps, 27 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1810: 3 with 8 Tps, 27 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1811: 30 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1812: 30 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps. 31 Dec 1813: 26 with 10 Tps, 5 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1814: 21 with 8 Tps, 10 with 10 Tps.

From 1802 to 1815, there were always 3 Household Cavalry Regiments (including RHG, who were not formally Household Cavalry until 1820, but shared many characteristics with 1st & 2nd LG).

1st & 2nd LG had 6 Troops per Regiment from 31 Dec 1802 to 31 Dec 1811, but from 31 Dec 1812 increased to 8 Troops per Regiment.

RHG had 8 Troops from 31 Dec 1802 to 25 Dec 1811, increased to 10 Troops from 31 Dec 1812 to 31 Dec 1813, reduced to 8 Troops from 25 Dec 1814.

The Household Cavalry increases coincided with them sending a Brigade to the Peninsula, thereby allowing them still to have enough Troops for ceremonial duties back in UK.

There were no Colonial Cavalry. The only Foreign Cavalry was KGL and Brunswick. From 31 Dec 1803 the KGL Cavalry began to form. The number of KGL Troops per Regiment was:

31 Dec 1803: 2 with 4 Tps.

31 Dec 1804: 1 with 4 Tps, 2 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1805: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1806: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1807: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1808: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1809: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1810: 5 with 8 Tps.

31 Dec 1811: 1 with 8 Tps, 4 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1812: 5 with 10 Tps.

31 Dec 1813: 4 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

31 Dec 1814: 4 with 10 Tps, 1 with 12 Tps.

A Brunswick Cavalry Regiment was taken onto the British establishment from 31 Dec 1810. It always had 6 Troops.

Hope this helps,

Rod

Eamonn O'Keeffe

Aug 17, 2020

Replying to

@Rod MacArthur Hi Rod, Thank you so much for this additional information on the cavalry. I am much obliged. All the best, Eamonn

Rod MacArthur

Aug 17, 2020

Replying to

Just noticed that I put 31 Dec against many of the Cavalry unit dates. I am sure I meant to put 25 Dec, since that was the normal “start of the year” for British Establishments. Occasionally “in year” changes were made on the “quarter days” of 25 Mar, 25 Jun and 25 Sep.

Rod

Rod MacArthur

Aug 09, 2020

Eamonn,

Further to my last post, I have now looked at the original data which I used when producing my articles on “Authorised Establishments of the British Army 1802-1815“.

I analysed the number of battalions by British, Colonial (ie Canadian, West Indies etc) and Foreign (ie KGL, Roll, Wattville, Chasseurs Brittaniques etc). Foot Guards (as always) were different so I have put them at the end.

The number of battalions, by years was:

25 Dec 1802: Brit - 118, Col - 12, For - 6

25 Dec 1803: Brit - 123, Col - 14, For - 14

25 Dec 1804: Brit - 170, Col - 15, For - 15

25 Dec 1805: Brit - 171, Col - 15, For - 19

25 Dec 1806: Brit - 171, Col - 16, For - 20

25 Dec 1807: Brit - 173, Col - 16, For - 19

25 Dec 1808: Brit - 177, Col - 15, For - 20

25 Dec 1809: Brit - 177, Col - 15, For - 20

25 Dec 1810: Brit - 178, Col - 14, For - 21

25 Dec 1811: Brit - 180, Col - 14, For - 21

25 Dec 1812: Brit - 184, Col - 15, For - 20

25 Dec 1813: Brit - 187, Col - 17, For - 20

25 Dec 1814: Brit - 187, Col - 17, For - 18

There were large reductions after the Peninsular War, mainly by disbanding 22 of the 2nd Battalions. Those don’t show on this chart, but I can add them if you want that information.

The Foot Guards establishments did not show battalions as such, but just companies. From 25 Dec 1802 to 25 Dec 1812 1st Foot Guards had 32 companies, enough for 3 battalions plus two extra companies (1 grenadier and 1 light). Coldstream and 3rd Foot Guards each had 20 companies, enough for 2 battalions each. From 25 Dec 1813, 1st Foot Guards was authorised to have 3 extra companies (ie one per battalion) whilst Coldstream and 3rd Foot Guards were authorised 2 extra companies each (again one per battalion).

Hope this helps.

Rod

Eamonn O'Keeffe

Aug 11, 2020

Replying to

Thank you Rod. Your information on the number of battalions is much appreciated. Just to check - are the cavalry regiments included in these figures or not?

The WO17 returns I have seen at Kew for individual battalions do list the effective strength broken down by rank, but I don't yet know whether the returns for the whole army (or the various theatres) that appear to be held at TNA separate out drummers.

Hans - Karl Weiß

Aug 05, 2020

Did you look at the rules and regulations of Infantry? They should specify where and in what amount drummers are to be placed in the regiment / battalion when deployed.

Of course bandsman and drummers are two completely different things and may wear different uniforms as well, as serving under different contracts.

Eamonn O'Keeffe

Aug 05, 2020

Replying to

Thank you for your suggestion Hans. Regulations do list the number of drummers on the establishment (typically 22) but it's difficult to come up with an estimate for the entire army on that basis as the establishments of some corps varied and the stipulated figures don't necessarily correspond with the numbers that were actually on service (many regts had well below 22 depending on casualties and recruitment).

Hans - Karl Weiß

Aug 06, 2020

Replying to

@Eamonn O'Keeffe

drummers were not that important in battle, most signals would be given in camp, this is in contrast to the bugle player who needed to know quite a few for controlling the skirmishing line.

Estimates of the army - in case British Army is using controles - one should be able to gather an approximate figure - there the strength would vary at daily basis.